Rex.3602's Content - Page 5 (2024)

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I think that condi builds (even the AoE focused ones) that are not purely bunker based are fine. I have no problems countering them on my elementalist, necromancer or warrior, or just simply avoiding the AoE condi traps.

Here I'm referring exclusively to the AoE condi skills that can be easily spammed in large groups in tight areas, sometimes resulting in a virtual stalemate between both sides where each side is too afraid to run in and initiate a fight because there are too many AoE condi effects blocking the only path. Some classic examples of areas in WvW where this frequently occurs are in the ogre camp and dredge tunnel entrances/exits.

Perhaps these kinds of situations were not intended by the devs with how the skills currently work, but this is the end result anyway. IMO these resultant stalemate situations are extremely boring and require little skill.

There are very few non-bunker viable condi builds in WvW because none of them can really compete with the insane damage of pure power builds stacked by zerging. Dire/trailblazer has been the only truly viable armor set for many years and it only works 1v1 and very small scale. Anything above 5 people is either power builds or minstrel supports, because the enemy run power builds and minstrel supports as well. Hell I've seen a literal 50/50 ratio on supports in 10 man groups, giving everyone a pocket firebrand or pocket scrapper. Unless you are

really

good at pulling out people (not that easy with perma-stab and all boons up) or they are

really

bad at it, condi barely even scratch those groups because it's cleansed as soon as it's applied.

It may be commonly run or not commonly run. What I said here is that I find it extremely boring when the bunker condi builds are used to create a stalemate situation (as described in detail in my previous post in this thread) where both sides are unwilling to initiate the fight. I find this happens a lot between large blob fights involving guilds.

Also as I stated in my previous post I have no problem at all with countering such builds. As a roamer, I have to often initiate such fights by myself because others seem to be unable or unwilling to do it themselves. Which is why I would find it interesting for WvW if such changes like the quote I made in my initial post were done.

@ASP.8093 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:I think that condi builds (even the AoE focused ones) that are not purely bunker based are fine. I have no problems countering them on my elementalist, necromancer or warrior, or just simply avoiding the AoE condi traps.

Here I'm referring exclusively to the AoE condi skills that can be easily spammed in large groups in tight areas, sometimes resulting in a virtual stalemate between both sides where each side is too afraid to run in and initiate a fight because there are too many AoE condi effects blocking the only path. Some classic examples of areas in WvW where this frequently occurs are in the ogre camp and dredge tunnel entrances/exits.

Perhaps these kinds of situations were not intended by the devs with how the skills currently work, but this is the end result anyway. IMO these resultant stalemate situations are extremely boring and require little skill.

You mean this:

Which is relying heavily on dropping Wall of Reflection in chokes to apply its damage, and can be most easily countered by pushing in melee (your own Firebrands drop their Resistance fields and the spinny sword, which is their hardest direct condi application, does nothing during the first critical parts of the engagement).

A PvE-style Condibrand like the one you posted is dead meat in WvW: you're a fragile porcelain doll with no mobility that needs to be in melee range to apply your big burn stacks.

Like I said in my previous post, I know it can be countered and actively do it myself. That's not what I was talking about in this thread, as I have clarified in my previous post here in case it wasn't clear enough.

To make it even clearer that I have no difficulty countering such builds I'll describe a fight I had 1v1 with a firebrand guard yesterday on my scourge necro: While I was solo roaming and trying to capture a camp, the firebrand sneaked up behind and attacked me. It barely scratched me but since the player seemed to be keen on defending the camp I started fighting them. I pulled them away from the npcs to an open field fight where we had some fun.

I even intentionally reduced my health to below 20% a couple of times with necro self-bleed and sacrifice skills in order to make the fight more interesting. As soon as I realized that the player was a firebrand using AoE condi skills (probably thinking that I wouldn't see these effects and would die in them), I started to actively dodge out of these areas. This worked so well that eventually I went back up to max health again. Unfortunately someone else came then and ended the 1v1 fight we were having by killing the player.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:An interesting idea thrown around a lot is that Vitality is good, while Toughness is bad. Let's do an objective comparison.

Using a Toughness as a Minor stat (for example Soldier gear instead of Berserker) provides similar benefit to having a permanent Protection boon. To be exact, Light armor users take 33.7% less damage, Medium takes 31.2% less damage and Heavy take 29.7% less damage in Soldier than in Berserker gear, so using Toughness on Light armor is more effective than using it on Heavy, which is as expected since Heavy armor provides more defense, but the difference is very small.

Now let's see how Vitality works. Low health professions have 11645 health, Medium health professions have 15922 health and High health professions have 19212Using Vitality as Minor (+961) we get Low: 21255 (82% increase), Medium: 25532 (60% increase), High: 28822 (50% increase), just like with Toughness, the higher the base health, the lower the effect of adding Vitality.

So which is better? Vitality or Toughness? Let's do a small comparison, assuming a 10 million damage hit and see how long each profession will last. Due to how relative numbers work, the results would be the same no matter the damage taken so it's accurate.

! Berseker Elementalist: 5084 damage per hit, 11645 health, 2.29 hits! Toughness Elementalist: 3369 damage per hit, 11645 health, 3.46 hits! Vitality Elementalist: 5084 damage per hit, 21255 health, 4.18 hits! Soldier Elementalist: 3369 damage per hit, 21255 health, 6.3 hits!! Berseker Mesmer: 5084 damage per hit, 15922 health, 3.13 hits! Toughness Mesmer: 3369 damage per hit, 15922 health, 4.73 hits! Vitality Mesmer: 5084 damage per hit, 25532 health, 5.02 hits! Soldier Mesmer: 3369 damage per hit, 25532 health, 7.58 hits!! Berseker Necromancer: 5084 damage per hit, 19212 health, 3.78 hits! Toughness Necromancer: 3369 damage per hit, 19212 health, 5.7 hits! Vitality Necromancer: 5084 damage per hit, 28822 health, 5.67 hits! Soldier Necromancer: 3369 damage per hit, 28822 health, 8.55 hits!! Berserker Thief: 4721 damage per hit, 11645 health, 2.47 hits! Toughness Thief: 3248 damage per hit, 11645 health, 3.59 hits! Vitality Thief: 4721 damage per hit, 21255 health, 4.5 hits! Soldier Thief: 3248 damage per hit, 21255 health, 6.54 hits!! Berserker Ranger | Engineer: 4721 damage per hit, 15922 health, 3.37 hits! Toughness Ranger | Engineer: 3248 damage per hit, 15922 health, 4.9 hits! Vitality Ranger | Engineer: 4721 damage per hit, 25532 health, 5.4 hits! Soldier Ranger | Engineer: 3248 damage per hit, 25532 health, 7.86 hits!! Berserker Guardian: 4403 damage per hit, 11645 health, 2.64 hits! Toughness Guardian: 3094 damage per hit, 11645 health, 3.76 hits! Vitality Guardian: 4403 damage per hit, 21255 health, 4.83 hits! Soldier Guardian: 3094 damage per hit, 21255 health, 6.87 hits!! Berserker Revenant: 4403 damage per hit, 15922 health, 3.62 hits! Toughness Revenant: 3094 damage per hit, 15922 health, 5.15 hits! Vitality Revenant: 4403 damage per hit, 25532 health, 5.8 hits! Soldier Revenant: 3094 damage per hit, 25532 health, 8.25 hits!! Berserker Warrior: 4403 damage per hit, 19212 health, 4.36 hits! Toughness Warrior: 3094 damage per hit, 19212 health, 6.2 hits! Vitality Warrior: 4403 damage per hit, 28822 health, 6.55 hits! Soldier Warrior: 3094 damage per hit, 28822 health, 9.32 hits

The problem with passive sustain comparisons is that they lack any practical context with which one could determine which stat is actually better for a build in practice. This is why:

(Max Health/(DPS - X) = Time to Live

X = the combined value of DPS mitigated via both active and passive defense including effects like healing and barrier.

If X is = or > incoming DPS, then you can sustain indefinitely.

It is impossible to quantify the impact of active defense or the variable rate of incoming damage in a way that could be applied to all scenarios. What is the value of dodging an attack without knowing how much damage the specific attack dealt, your current health total, and any number of other variables that apply to a real scenario?

However, to continue along the lines of the simplistic comparison, consider the impact of healing. What happens if we assume that the number of "hits" the elementalist in the passive comparison can sustain is equal to the number of seconds they have to live?

Toughness Elementalist: 3369 damage per hit, 11645 health, 3.46 hitsVitality Elementalist: 5084 damage per hit, 21255 health, 4.18 hits

If, for example, I can heal for 3.4k/s then the toughness elementalist can sustain an infinite number of hits as each hit is mitigated by a slightly greater amount of healing. However, the vitality elementalist is still taking about 1.7k DPS that is not being mitigated by healing and will now survive for about 12.5 seconds.

In our simplified example, healing-per-second = X. In a real scenario, the amount of healing required is less all damage mitigated via other means, active and passive. Without accounting for X, it is impossible to make any meaningful comparison between toughness and vitality.

For what it's worth, I mostly prioritize healing power, vitality and toughness on my elementalist for a more defensive build. This combined with frequently using run speed buffs and debuffs on enemies, I find that I can survive in situations where normally it would seem unrealistic to be able to do so. It often takes 4+ players in WvW to kill me solo on my elementalist when I use this type of build.